Revenue Manager Roundtable Recap: Navigating the Post-Summer 2026 Transition

Summer 2026 proved to be a highly nuanced season marked by a strong urban-rural divide. Rural and destination drive-to markets experienced a "resonant peak"—a pattern where May and June lead-in dates struggled, but core July and August dates achieved top-of-market average daily rates (ADR). Conversely, urban locations faced stiffer supply saturation and increased competition from rising regional travel costs.

Despite economic caution, overall traveler volume held up, particularly for operators who established a strong occupancy base early in the season. Success was largely determined by an operator's ability to hold rate integrity on peak dates while using targeted promotional levers to fill transitional shoulder periods.

One of the most persistent post-pandemic shifts in guest behavior is the bifurcation of the booking window. High-intent planners secure desirable luxury properties 90+ days in advance, while price-sensitive travelers wait until 14 days before arrival to book. This leaves the 30-to-90-day window looking unusually quiet.

Rather than panicking and dropping base rates across the board during this mid-range lull, experienced revenue managers hold their rate structure and evaluate non-pricing levers. Softness in this window is often a reflection of guest indecision rather than a lack of intent, making it an ideal time to adjust minimum stay requirements or test flexible policy structures.

Driven by high airfares and international travel friction, many domestic drive-to markets are experiencing an influx of first-time visitors with higher disposable income. These "new-to-market" travelers are migrating away from traditional flight-based vacations toward accessible regional destinations, bringing elevated expectations for service, amenities, and property quality.

When an operator captures these higher-spending guests, the focus shifts to retention. Transforming a first-time regional traveler into a loyal direct-booking customer requires delivering a seamless, high-touch experience and capturing re-booking commitments before they leave the property.

While luxury homes command high ADRs and economy properties capture consistent volume, mid-tier properties face the greatest risk of stagnation. These listings are easily commoditized by prospective guests comparing total stay costs across multiple channels.

To optimize mid-tier listings, revenue managers must pull individual levers rather than applying broad portfolio discounts. This includes auditing listing content, testing dynamic stay restrictions, and applying targeted promotions to increase search visibility without eroding base pricing integrity.

When calendar pacing lags, a common instinct is to slash nightly prices. However, a more effective tactic for boosting OTA search visibility is reducing minimum stay requirements. Lowering a 4-night minimum to a 2- or 3-night minimum exposes the listing to a much wider pool of active searchers.

Data demonstrates that reducing minimum stay rules does not automatically result in shorter stays. Many guests searching with 3-night filters end up booking 4 or 5 nights once they discover a high-quality property. Relaxing stay restrictions acts as an algorithm boost that drives traffic without devaluing the asset.

Relying solely on historical booking pace is no longer sufficient for long-term forecasting. Forward-looking revenue managers evaluate broader economic health indicators to anticipate guest price sensitivity 3 to 6 months down the road.

Tracking metrics like revolving credit card debt, consumer loan consolidation searches, and real disposable income trends provides a clearer picture of future purchasing power. When credit indicators suggest consumer tightening, revenue managers can adjust their far-future lead time strategies to lock in advance occupancy before the broader market softens.

Events like major sports tournaments, music festivals, and regional celebrations create significant noise in the market. A common pitfall for independent hosts is setting exorbitant "event rates" based on media headlines, which ultimately stalls booking momentum and tanks search rankings.

Professional revenue managers take a measured approach during high-compression events. Rather than holding out for unrealistic 5x markups, they implement strategic 15% to 35% rate increases combined with stricter stay length restrictions. This approach captures top-of-market yield while ensuring the listing actually converts.

Managing owner expectations is an essential component of revenue strategy. Owners often fixate on peak-season rates and become anxious when rates adjust downward during shoulder periods. Overcoming this friction requires proactive, data-backed communication.

Leading property management firms host regular educational webinars, publish market trend blogs, and share transparent pacing reports with their homeowners. Demonstrating how a lower rate captures higher total net revenue compared to an unbooked calendar builds trust and keeps owners aligned with long-term portfolio strategy.

Online Travel Agencies (OTAs) are competing aggressively for consumer conversion, increasingly incentivizing hosts to run steeper discounts. In many search algorithms, promotions under 10% no longer receive visual merchandising badges or ranking boosts.

To maintain channel margins, revenue managers must be selective with OTA promotions. Combining dynamic base pricing with targeted, high-value discount structures ensures properties retain search visibility without sacrificing net RevPAR. Furthermore, operators should continue investing in direct-booking channels to build long-term portfolio independence.

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John Deroulet: We'll give it a few more minutes. We got a bunch of people coming in. Feel free to say hi and tell us where you are and a little bit where your portfolio is, where you're listening from in the chat.

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John Deroulet: really excited for this session with you guys. We're kind of at the end of summer now, so always an interesting year for… or time period to start talking about what's been going on. Um…

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John Deroulet: I guess we can just get started. People can kind of come in. They'll get into the meat of it as they come in. My name is John Deerley. I'm the head of Revenue Management Education here at Wheelhouse. This is our Revenue Management Roundtable. So if you haven't been to one of these before, it's an opportunity for us to get together. We do it once every week.

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John Deroulet: Roughly 6 to 8 weeks, uh, and we bring on property manager or revenue managers, uh, professional revenue managers in the industry to really just have a conversation about what's been going on kind of like right now in the recent past and what we're expecting for the future. The goal here is really for us to talk about kind of.

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John Deroulet: What we've been doing and seeing in our own portfolios, the data trends, the kind of strategies and tactics we've been implementing, so that you can kind of take that information and hear what these professionals are thinking about, what they're looking at, and how they're responding to it, so you can see where that, when, where, and how that might apply in your own portfolio, and really just to give people kind of like a sounding board against, like, what are these decisions that are often going on in a vacuum?

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John Deroulet: Um, I've got some great Revenue Managers on for you today. We'll go around, um…

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John Deroulet: And do some introductions. Uh, as I go around, please introduce your name, your company, uh, where your portfolio is, and just, you know, a little bit about it. Uh, and then we'll kind of start the conversation with what's been happening this summer. Uh, what have you guys been seeing? What's been going on?

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John Deroulet: And then we'll move into the future, since we're kind of at a, like a, you know, this time of the year is kind of like big switch. We're ending high season for a lot of markets. There's a few markets going into their fall high seasons, and we're getting into the really early booking window for ski. So, Bryant, why don't we start with you for an introduction?

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Bryant Loy: Hey? I'm Bryant Loy. I work with Brett Robinson vacation rentals down here in Gulf shores and Orange Beach, Alabama. We have about 1,800 condos one to 4 bedrooms, the few larger ones here and there. But.

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Bryant Loy: Uh, we're primarily just down here, Gulf Shores, Orange Beach, we've got a little bit of stuff starting to creep into Perdido, Key, Florida, and that market a little bit, but uh… nice to see everybody.

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John Deroulet: Awesome. Thanks, Bryant. Kyle, would you like to introduce yourself?

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Kyle Polensky: Yeah, I'm Kyle Polunsky here, coming to you from Pacer Revenue. So, we're actually kind of doing on the consulting side of things, working with a lot more, uh, diverse operators internationally. So, my portfolio specifically, I've got properties that I'm helping manage from the Poconos to New Zealand at this current time, so…

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Kyle Polensky: Got a pretty diverse set of knowledge on this side of things, and uh, yeah, just excited to see you again, John.

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John Deroulet: Awesome. Yeah, thanks, Kyle. You'll be able to tell us how winter is doing in the southern hemisphere.

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Kyle Polensky: It's doing pretty good, actually. Especially in Queenstown right now, we're loving it. So, yeah.

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John Deroulet: Awesome.

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John Deroulet: Rebecca, would you like to introduce yourself?

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Rebecca Barrett: Yep. Hi, my name is Tabraka. I'm the revenue manager and co-owner of Cascade Vacation Rentals.

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Rebecca Barrett: Uh, we have about 120 privately owned homes in our portfolio, and are located on the north shore of Lake Superior, so right on the Canadian border, but on the United States side of things.

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Rebecca Barrett: Um, yeah.

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John Deroulet: Awesome.

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John Deroulet: Pleasure to have you on. And Henry, why don't you give us.

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Henry Corell: My name is Henry Carell. I'm the founder of Rev Up Rental. We are a revenue management service for property managers, and we manage portfolios in the United States, Canada, and a bit in Europe, just under about 2,000 listings in total.

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John Deroulet: Awesome. Pleasure to have you guys all on. I'll do a little framing, and then let's talk about what's been going on this summer. Been kind of an interesting year for folks, I think. A little bit of the framing I've seen — and these are general, so please feel free to disagree or let me know if your markets have been operating differently. A lot of what I saw was the year started out pretty slow.

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John Deroulet: Um, for most markets in the country, coming off of a pretty slow Q4, right? Uh, September was a drop-off for a lot of markets in the country. Last year.

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Henry Corell: Okay.

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John Deroulet: With a few exceptions, Q4 was kind of sluggish. That started at the beginning of the year. However, spring kind of caught up. Really strong short-term booking window. And a number of markets, particularly the southern markets, ended up with pretty strong springs. That changes a little bit as you go north, but it seemed to do pretty good.

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John Deroulet: Things in many markets were pretty strong through the spring into the summer. However, I've seen in a lot of markets maybe starting to skip a beat a little bit as we've gotten into late May, June, particularly in that last-minute window.

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John Deroulet: But still hearing a lot of strength, but a lot more mixed stories as we've gotten into the summer.

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John Deroulet: To start out this conversation, one, feel free to disagree with me or tell us the specifics of what you're seeing in your market. But how did summer go for you guys? What are some things that you maybe saw that you didn't expect? Or what are things that you planned for that ended up working out? And how were you really approaching the summer this year?

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John Deroulet: to get to where you needed to go. I'll go around and call on people, but please feel free to just pop in if you want to respond to something someone says. It's pretty conversational, and if there's any, you know, if people are kind of done speaking, I'll just kind of move us around the group. But why don't we start with you, Kyle? You've got a pretty broad range. You can counter my assessment of very broad.

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John Deroulet: information.

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Kyle Polensky: Yeah, you know, I'm loving that you're bringing up this stuff. For me, I do really agree that there was a diversity of what happened this summer. So, specifically in the market that I operated, it really did come down to that urban-rural divide. Like, on the more negative side, I would say the rural markets, we really did see what I've been kind of calling, like, a resonant peak.

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Kyle Polensky: if it's the musician in me, I really want to focus on that. But, like, we did see a slower lead-in in spring that really put us, uh, put a lot of owners in a concerning position for summer. We didn't see as many, uh, lead-in reservations. June and a lot of markets kind of struggled. But we were getting the whole time as we were struggling through May and June, we were getting fantastic peak season reservations coming through, and as the…

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Kyle Polensky: peak season is closed in these more rural markets, we've really seen that guests were willing to pay the higher rates, but they wanted to get the exact, most valuable, most desired dates. So, what we've really done on our strategy with these rural markets is really maintained a lot of our premium ADR positions on the most valuable.

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Kyle Polensky: times of each year. Um, so specifically for me, like, Idaho, that's July and August. We've been doing fantastic there. But June was a little bit more of a ramp-up, where guests really waited to spend their hard-earned dollars until it was going to be July 4th. So that's one thing we've really noticed on our end with this summer. And then on the opposite side of things.

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Kyle Polensky: Our urban markets have definitely been a little bit more struggling with saturation issues, I would say. So, you know, definitely city locations near beaches.

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Kyle Polensky: We've seen a lot of… the competition is getting pretty fierce, especially as we're not just competing for… against other hotels, we're also competing in the total cost, if you think about it, for a reservation. The travel costs on the up, gas and fuel, things like that, we've seen airlines definitely charging more for flights.

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Kyle Polensky: We're definitely seeing that, unfortunately, on the housing side of things, the lodging side of things, we really need to cut ADR in order to stay active within the current market. So for a good amount of, like, our urban markets, we've been really focused on just maintaining or expanding year-over-year occupancy to make sure you're getting a slice of that pie because guests are being very…

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Kyle Polensky: very ADR-focused, and they're very wary of paying higher rates, unless it's for something, uh, major. For example, like the World Cup, where we did see increases there.

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John Deroulet: Awesome. For those rural markets, I'm curious because you mentioned people are willing to pay that higher rate. I felt like when I've looked at a lot of these markets, particularly as we've gotten into summer, the markets that have done well are still really being bolstered by a lot of the early booking.

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Kyle Polensky: Mm-hmm.

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John Deroulet: Really had a lot of short-term booking come in, and it was a surprise. But as that's weakened, even the markets that are strong, you see an erosion of booking pace. I'm curious what you were seeing from a booking window perspective. Did you have stuff to sell in the short term? How did you deal with what was left in the short term? Did it?

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John Deroulet: cross-section out across different kinds of properties? Like, where was… where were their struggles? Uh, anything… pick one of those.

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Kyle Polensky: Mm-hmm.

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Kyle Polensky: Yeah, you know, I think specifically, this will probably touch on a topic later in the conversation, is just getting out ahead really did help us. So making sure that we did lock in longer reservations, we've been really relying heavily on like long stay promotions, things like that to get more sold nights there.

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Kyle Polensky: Because you're right, I think there is less pickup. There's been more pickup than I would expect considering the gas prices and their variability there, stuff we see in the news constantly about that going up consistently. Americans seem pretty resilient towards inflation right now.

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Kyle Polensky: they probably are just, you know, taking it in as they can, just going ahead. So, I think for us, we've still been seeing decent last-minute pickup, but it is slightly softer than prior years. So, again, that puts pressure on us to really make sure that you're locked in with a really great guest further out, definitely.

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Kyle Polensky: outside of the 30-day window in more rural markets, for sure. Yeah.

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John Deroulet: Awesome. Thank you, Kyle. Rebecca, why don't you tell us a little bit about what's going on? I'm really curious to hear because you're obviously in a northern market that is highly, highly seasonal. So I'm always thinking about how these northern markets — where do you get the canary in the coal mine to get early information?

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Rebecca Barrett: Yeah. Okay.

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Rebecca Barrett: Yeah, usually I look at the data, and I just expect our market to do the total opposite. So, um, just to give you some context, we are… like, our properties border the Boundary Waters canoe access. Um, entry points, like, that's how far up and in the woods we are. We're about two and a half hours from the nearest McDonald's, so…

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Rebecca Barrett: we're very like in the middle of nowhere. So we are also a drive to market in the Midwest. So anyone coming from St. Paul, Minneapolis, we're about 5 ish hours away from that. So that was really helpful. This year we saw a lot of new travelers come into our area this year. Who had more.

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Rebecca Barrett: uh, disposable income. We saw, unlike we were saying for people in, uh, city locations, um, we saw people instead of taking, like, uh, airplanes somewhere for their vacation, they were booking way further in advance this year.

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Rebecca Barrett: to travel, drive travel up here, um, and spending a lot more money than we typically see, so our ADRs are pretty consistently higher. Booking window is drastically higher this year for our peak summer season, um.

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Rebecca Barrett: And, um, as we got into summer, uh, we saw our short-term bookings, like, really reduce, like, we were struggling to get our normal clientele, because they were being more price sensitive than normal, so…

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Rebecca Barrett: Um, when we typically wouldn't run a promotion, like, during the summer, like, peak season for us, but we saw the promotions really, like, needing to be run in order to bring those clients back to us.

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Henry Corell: That's something we did early on, too, was, like, segmenting out the months and, like, seeing if it was a drive-in versus fly-in period, and kind of, like, preparing for that. So for a lot of our, like, summer markets that were drive-in periods, we…

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Rebecca Barrett: It is.

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Henry Corell: basically, we're prepping our clients, being like, hey, you know, consumers are a little bit more sensitive right now. We assume that people are actually gonna wait a little bit closer to the stay dates to make those bookings, and some of those markets, like in Florida, like the beach markets, we, um…

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Henry Corell: we saw that trend happen. And then we've actually been able to like kind of capitalize based off of our like portfolio makeup on like pushing Adrs in that respect. And so we we had. We we it was almost like a risk, like, you know, not expecting the last minute travel, but like seeing the like writing on the wall. But like.

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Henry Corell: really looking at who are your feeder markets? Where are they coming from? But then also, yeah, gas prices and everything have been super interesting.

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John Deroulet: Yeah, you really hit on two things that have been a big theme for me. I mean, that booking window, again, following with Kyle, that early booking is really bolstering it, the weakness that's starting to appear. And I think for you guys, that's like your main season. But for those who had stronger springs, it's a bigger switch because they had such a strong short-term booking window in spring, and then that behavior totally changed.

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John Deroulet: Um, I have actually been seeing a lot for June and July that average booking windows have actually been increasing, which to me means the short-term isn't appearing. Like, we already had really strong long-term, and then the short-term is no longer appearing, and you're actually seeing those average booking windows go up year over year, where they didn't in the spring.

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John Deroulet: But the thing that you mentioned that I think is really fascinating is this new guest acquisition kind of thing. Like, where are people coming from? Can you dig into a little bit, like, one, how are you noticing that? Two, what are you doing to kind of engage these new customers, and where are they coming from for your area?

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John Deroulet: Because I think a lot of people haven't looked into this a lot, and there's a lot of interesting news this year about first-time travelers is up a ton in a bunch of markets.

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Rebecca Barrett: Yeah, absolutely. They're all still coming from the same area, like our Twin Cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul area. It is a lot of people and of a lot of different economic statuses.

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Rebecca Barrett: um, we get to draw from that same area. We're lucky that we primarily market to that area, um, to get a variety of different travelers. Uh…

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Rebecca Barrett: Oh, I was gonna say.

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Rebecca Barrett: Say your question again for me.

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John Deroulet: Um, I don't ever…

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Rebecca Barrett: Oh, how are we re-re… how are we re-engaging with them? Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, because we do have… we have four seasons up here, um, two of them are very strong seasons. Um, it'll just be, like, re-engaging with them for different times of the year, or we're really trying to push, um, come back next year, because.

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John Deroulet: Yeah.

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Rebecca Barrett: try to capture their booking for next year already, when they're probably already thinking about traveling to Europe or something like that. Like, how can we get you to come back to us again, even for a shorter stay?

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John Deroulet: That makes sense. And are these new travelers, what channels are they coming through primarily?

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Rebecca Barrett: So, we are extremely high direct bookings. Um, our OTA bookings are typically under 30% of our overall bookings in general, even more so this year, though. Like, we barely are seeing any Vrbo or Airbnb bookings come in. It's, like, very far.

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John Deroulet: Hmm.

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Rebecca Barrett: Um, and in between, and they are very last minute, and they normally are with a promotion that we have on those platforms.

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Kyle Polensky: That's fascinating. Yeah.

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John Deroulet: Yeah, that is really interesting. And have you noticed anything about the demographics of the new customers? Is that shifting from your traditional demographic?

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Rebecca Barrett: Uh, a little bit, um, you can tell in, like, the way that they interact with, like, our services, um, you know, they expect a bit more, um, they're a little bit, like, more luxury travelers versus, like, our more basic, like.

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Rebecca Barrett: I'm here to go on a hike kind of people, so, um, that's one of our…

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Rebecca Barrett: How people are behaving and interacting with us is a really big… like, we'll learn a lot from that.

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John Deroulet: Awesome. Thanks, Rebecca. Henry, do you want to tell us a little bit about what you've been seeing this summer in your portfolio?

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Henry Corell: Yeah, no. So touching back on what I said previously. Something interesting I did early on, because I was like, Okay, people have. You know, they're more price conscious, you know, looking at the writing on wall. People have less money to spend. I was doing studies with buildings that we have, and like very similar units, and seeing what the asking rates were and what was getting booked, and it was like a very consistent trend that earlier on, for, like the drive in period that driving periods I was in.

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Henry Corell: um, people were booking the more cheaper option. They were being more price conscious in that sense. But then on the flip side.

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Henry Corell: the luxury items. Those were just still booking kind of like crazy. But then, like, yeah, last minute, it was a bit more like softer demand, I would say, for summer. But looking forward into the future, we're we're looking pretty healthy. But it was a lot of like.

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Henry Corell: we were almost focusing too much on the ones that were underperforming, and we started, like, ******** our, like, our gears and views to, like, the higher performers, because we're like, the demand is there. There is demand. Um, let's maximize those. We're still gonna pay attention to underperformers, obviously, but, like, like.

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Henry Corell: let's not forget about the money makers and like so capitalizing on those listings that were booking up well. So it was a nice balance that we had, and it definitely varied, based off asset type and location. Obviously. But no, it was yeah, kind of expected for the summer to be a little bit later and a little bit slower this year, after seeing like spring.

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Henry Corell: Um, but yeah, we're seeing positive signs going into the future in the markets we're in.

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John Deroulet: That's really interesting to me. When you talk about focusing on these kind of high performers, I always feel like it's a little harder, just in the sense that you have to extrapolate.

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Henry Corell: Yeah.

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John Deroulet: across time, because you can only book them so many times, whereas, like, if you have a really commoditized property, you can kind of extrapolate it vertically across the days. Um, what are, like, some of the specific approaches you took, and how do you kind of, like, judge the risk you're willing to take if you're like, oh, hey, these few weeks did well, I'm gonna start b.

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Henry Corell: Mm-hmm.

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John Deroulet: X amount of weeks, or whatever.

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Henry Corell: A really easy one is just, you know, how far out are the bookings being made? If you have historical performance, that's even better, but, like, there's a market in Canada that I'm in, and we have, um…

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Henry Corell: like 15 penthouses, and it made me rethink, like, over the past 2 years, the definition of pacing, because it was like, we hit their goals year one, but now we're doubling them, and it's just, like, not expected because of, like, that demographic, but it's… it's very…

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Henry Corell: like, the high-end stuff, I would say, the photos are much better, just like the listing quality is much better. There's a group out there that's not gonna book anything unless they have something that is luxury, and they're okay with spending a little bit more money in that regard, and typically those listings are a little bit more scarce.

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Henry Corell: Um, is that, that, that kind of like answers like a high density, like urban market, the beach, like markets, like a mansion on the water, that one you can kind of just see like those, if those aren't booking up far out enough, um, like that's a pretty clear and easy way to kind of like be like, okay, maybe we like revisit this.

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Henry Corell: Um, re-look at everything. And then another way, I go on VRBO all the time, search dates, and you can sort on VRBO, high to low, um, and so you can see where you stack up, and, like, all in prices. Like, I think Kyle was talking about, um, comparing all in prices. VRBO is, like.

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Henry Corell: A great tool, just like an old-fashioned way of doing it, but it works very well.

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Kyle Polensky: Yeah, totally agree with you on that, Henry. Like, that VRBO filter is really useful 'cause it's not on every OTA. So, yeah.

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Henry Corell: Right.

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Henry Corell: And, yeah.

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John Deroulet: Thank you.

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John Deroulet: Awesome. Thanks, Henry. Brian, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you guys were.

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Bryant Loy: Yeah, um, you know, we came off a real strong spring and kind of expected the summer to be pretty strong, and it was. It was probably our second best summer we've had, uh, just behind 2021, which was obviously pretty crazy post-pandemic. But, um, you know, as a whole, kind of going into this year.

12:21:48 --> 12:22:07

Bryant Loy: Uh, we went in with a fairly conservative pricing approach just because of how 2026 ended. We saw some strength in the fall of 2026, like you kind of mentioned, but, um, summer last year just wasn't quite as strong as we kind of expected it to be, so we kind of came into the year with a pretty conservative pricing strategy.

12:22:07 --> 12:22:20

Bryant Loy: Um, really did some segmentation, kind of like what, uh, Henry was talking about. Segmented out, made sure that, uh, you know, we had things kind of built out with different parameters, so we were going to handle our, our kind of.

12:22:20 --> 12:22:41

Bryant Loy: tougher to book stuff in a much different just not just with with pricing, but with, you know. How far out do we drop anchors and things like that under pricing for the next year? How? You know, how do we want to handle this cancellation policies on the Otas? You know, there's just other triggers besides just dropping the rates that you can. You can do to make sure that.

12:22:41 --> 12:23:01

Bryant Loy: um, those things are done right, and then to the other side of it, those higher-end ones, how do you make sure you hold those correctly? And, um, you know, I like some of the things that Henry was saying there, but, uh, there's, there's also, you know, pieces of that, like, hey, do you want to mark those up differently on the OTAs? Do you want to handle, uh, their cancellation policies differently than you do with what's internal, uh, you.

12:23:01 --> 12:23:18

Bryant Loy: what's external versus internal cancellation policies for the Otas. So as a whole, you know, very, very good summer. We're off to a to good early fall, and you know for us our markets again are very, very consolidated in terms of being in the same.

12:23:18 --> 12:23:30

Bryant Loy: you know, location, all the inventory, but also, uh, the travel market here is… is fairly consolidated as well. It's a drive market for people within about 8 to 10 hours drive. Um…

12:23:30 --> 12:23:48

Bryant Loy: And so, you know, we pay a great deal of attention to when they're going back to school, for example. And, uh, for our markets, we know they go back to school, well, last week. And so, our summer is different than it used to be, when it was Labor Day going back to school. Now kids are going back the first, second week of August, so we make our adjustments to make sure that our pricing strategies match up, and.

12:23:48 --> 12:23:50

Bryant Loy: Um…

12:23:50 --> 12:24:05

Bryant Loy: you know, reflect that that change in in what we expect to see in demand. And it's it's been. It's been a good it's been good for us to to make those changes. And it's been been a good year so far. So booking windows, you know, we've mentioned that a little bit.

12:24:05 --> 12:24:24

Bryant Loy: you know, within 14 days, we were up 5% in bookings within 14 days, and that was even with us being ahead, you know, with the far-out bookings, we still saw a huge increase in last-minute bookings. What has become a frustration point for us, I guess, for the past few years is that in between.

12:24:24 --> 12:24:37

Bryant Loy: booking window. So like that stuff between 30 and 90 days has just been this weird black hole for a couple of years that we've been trying to track down and figure out. But you know, one day we'll we'll we'll figure it out. I'm sure.

12:24:37 --> 12:24:51

John Deroulet: Yeah, it's definitely a switch from, uh, definitely COVID, but also, like, pre-COVID. Uh, that used to be, I would say, the peak booking window, and it's now, like, it's bookended around it, where you have the really strong early booking, and.

12:24:48 --> 12:24:50

Bryant Loy: Mm-hmm.

12:24:51 --> 12:24:56

John Deroulet: Sometimes strong, but very volatile last-minute booking. One of the things I…

12:24:54 --> 12:25:04

Bryant Loy: That's where we play with the policies. You know, the cancellation policies, I think, play a part in that. And so that's why I think we're playing with policies to see if it fixes any of it.

12:24:56 --> 12:24:58

John Deroulet: Yeah.

12:25:04 --> 12:25:21

John Deroulet: That's interesting. Yeah, that's a good insight. One of the things I want to dig in with you is, I talk to your team a lot. You have a very sophisticated team with a lot of data, but you guys are probably always at the forefront of really thinking ahead. I mean, you mentioned it just now. You're already thinking about fall.

12:25:21 --> 12:25:30

John Deroulet: you have a portfolio that tends to be pretty short-term booking, so for you guys, that's pretty far in advance. What data are you looking at to make these assessments? How often are you…

12:25:30 --> 12:25:36

John Deroulet: How often are you… like, both internal and external, and how often are you, like, revising this assessment and relating it to your strategy?

12:25:32 --> 12:25:33

Bryant Loy: Yeah.

12:25:36 --> 12:25:52

Bryant Loy: Yeah. So I mean the I mean, your internal pacing data is obviously kind of your North Star. So we're looking to see how do our, you know, 1, 2, 3, and 4 bedrooms by segment type look versus where they were last year pacing for specific weeks. you know, for us.

12:25:52 --> 12:26:07

Bryant Loy: you know, the off season or fall season has really a couple strong weeks, and then everything else is essentially at this point just off season. So we you know, I'm gonna back up before I go into the data. We look at one important thing to do as you as you look at that data.

12:26:07 --> 12:26:19

Bryant Loy: communicate to your owners if you see that, so they understand. Because if you're seeing a 30% occupancy week, and you're trying to price it like, hey, it's fall, so it's gotta be good rates, because fall's pretty good.

12:26:19 --> 12:26:34

Bryant Loy: Um, but it's 30% occupancy for these 3 weeks during it. Um, you're just gonna end up not booked. And so, you know, having those conversations with owners, we communicate a tremendous amount with our owners. Our revenue team does blogs, we do.

12:26:34 --> 12:26:51

Bryant Loy: you know, calls with our owners just to have, you know, not specific one on one calls like larger calls that we present like, Hey, here's the data. Here's here's a Powerpoint. Here's what it's telling us. Here's why we're gonna price your unit lower than you think you should for this time period. Here's why it's gonna work. Here's what it means in revenue versus the market. All that stuff. So.

12:26:51 --> 12:27:04

Bryant Loy: you know, we look at, you know, market external pacing data, internal pacing data, and then we actually look a lot more the last 2 to 3 years at kind of more future kind of.

12:27:04 --> 12:27:20

Bryant Loy: external data like things like, how often are people googling, you know, credit card consolidation loans? How often are they looking for things like mortgage, you know, help things that are problems with, you know, general ability to to pay bills.

12:27:20 --> 12:27:42

Bryant Loy: because if they can't pay bills, they're not traveling. They're not going on vacations. you know, we we look at that stuff, and we try to figure out if there's a lag. We've pulled it back. We have, you know, we've been open for 40 years. So we have data that goes back a really long time. So we can look and see those same kind of trends over time and see, okay, is that a 3 month lag to a decline in bookings? Is it a 6 month lag to decline in bookings?

12:27:42 --> 12:27:59

Bryant Loy: and we'll start to understand that. And so you know, when we talk about how like we're a little worried about like the early 2027 stuff right now, that's what we mean. We we don't have enough data on the books right now for 2027 to feel good or bad. It's it's just a very small portion of what we're gonna do.

12:27:59 --> 12:28:05

Bryant Loy: But we do know that economic indicators are telling us that it may be a little bit of.

12:28:05 --> 12:28:24

Bryant Loy: maybe not a great economic time period, so that tells us, hey, let's go ahead and get ahead of it pretty quickly here. Let's make the right pricing adjustments quickly, so that if that happens, we have a bigger chunk on the books than we would have had if we'd gone in with an aggressive pricing strategy coming off an awesome 2026. We're gonna have a really good 2026.

12:28:24 --> 12:28:26

Bryant Loy: So that's the kind of stuff we'll look at.

12:28:26 --> 12:28:36

Henry Corell: Yeah, real disposable income, too, um, has been flatlined, like, so that's another thing, like, people just have, like, less money to spend, and then, like, the double hump.

12:28:29 --> 12:28:30

Bryant Loy: Mm-hmm.

12:28:34 --> 12:28:39

Bryant Loy: Yeah, that is. That's one of them we look at too.

12:28:36 --> 12:28:37

Henry Corell: Yeah, the top…

12:28:38 --> 12:28:53

Henry Corell: Yeah, no, those are all the fun, fun things to look into, but it's interesting. I found a trend where it was like, yeah, people don't really start making, like, financial changes until their credit cards start maxing out, which tells me people have a lot of credit card debt. But, um…

12:28:51 --> 12:28:54

Bryant Loy: Revolving to credit card debts at a high, too.

12:28:53 --> 12:29:15

Henry Corell: Yeah. And then the double humped camel that we were talking about for like the the booking window. I did like a study on that, because me and John used to talk about that like years ago, because I was like, it's an average. Why is everyone taking like an average is like, you know, with all this weight? And when I did like a study on one of my buildings where we were able to get some ages of people who booked we found out like that average.

12:29:15 --> 12:29:31

Henry Corell: period that you're talking about Bryant was more like millennial aged groups, which is surprising. You think, like millennials would be like book last minute. But it was actually like more middle aged people were booking last minute. So when, like student loans, turned back on.

12:29:31 --> 12:29:47

Henry Corell: I was like, Okay, we're gonna see like a drop in this like group, because I did the math. And at the time it was like 10% of their average take home pay would go to like the average student loan payment. So like all of our bit like high bedroom houses that weren't luxury. Necessarily, I was like, we need to take these down a couple of tiers. But then also.

12:29:47 --> 12:29:48

Henry Corell: that…

12:29:48 --> 12:30:05

Henry Corell: group that bookers of bookers that are like, you know, kind of 30 60 days out. That's gonna be a little bit less demand. So early on, we took advantage of that honestly. So like we just knew. And then also, people that booked last minute were less price sensitive. Surprisingly, especially it depends on your market what you're selling. But.

12:30:05 --> 12:30:09

Henry Corell: Now, yeah, all interesting points, but economic.

12:30:07 --> 12:30:15

Bryant Loy: We've seen that, too. Actually, they're less price sensitive within the very last minute, because they just are indecisive. It's not that they don't have the money.

12:30:15 --> 12:30:24

Henry Corell: Yeah, it's interesting breaking out the age demographics because the economy is hitting different groups differently.

12:30:23 --> 12:30:36

Bryant Loy: Well, I'm sure that's by market, too, because I know our market just has so many rentals that you can still get a really great rental within 7 days without it being a problem, unless you're looking at, like, July 4th weekend, so…

12:30:26 --> 12:30:27

Henry Corell: Yeah. Okay.

12:30:37 --> 12:30:54

John Deroulet: Interesting. Well, we've all talked about — I think a lot of people had a lot of success this year. And you guys have all hit that early booking window. So let's talk a little bit about what were the trouble spots through the summer? Where was there difficulty in the portfolio? And how did you approach it or deal with it?

12:30:54 --> 12:31:04

John Deroulet: weren't able to really deal with it in a way that you were satisfied with, how do you plan to deal with it next year? And I'll, you know, if anyone wants to jump in, otherwise I'll start calling on folks.

12:31:06 --> 12:31:24

Henry Corell: I think a big thing is communication, too, up front, like what Bryant was talking about, like, setting expectations earlier on, so, you know, it's not, like, sticker shock, or, like, something pops up, and then you're getting blown up with questions, but, um, yeah, I guess it's just, like, being proactive in that regard, and then also look at the history, and, like.

12:31:24 --> 12:31:39

Henry Corell: really segment out where your feeder markets are. Like, a lot of, uh, what people talk about is, like, you know, job growth, unemployment, like, look, look into that. Those are actual, like, trends that, like, you know, affect how people, how consumers spend, so…

12:31:39 --> 12:31:42

Henry Corell: Yeah, that's just, like, one little piece. Someone can bounce off that.

12:31:45 --> 12:32:04

Bryant Loy: Yeah, that midterm booking market that, you know, 30 to 90 days is where we saw a little bit of struggle this year. So, like, the May bookings for, like, July, saw a little bit of a dip there. For us, it was just about patience, though, because we had already been trending ahead a little bit there, so we kind of trusted the process that the rates were still right.

12:32:04 --> 12:32:16

Bryant Loy: So we didn't want to make some sort of sweeping change, but… I mean, the other changes that we saw, or I guess challenges, I guess, that we saw… and this is something we're addressing as we look at 2027, is…

12:32:04 --> 12:32:06

Henry Corell: Yeah.

12:32:16 --> 12:32:32

Bryant Loy: The midweek versus weekend occupancy this year saw a little bit more variance than what we're used to. We typically see weekends are higher than weekdays in terms of overall occupancy, and we price accordingly, and our pricing system prices it accordingly.

12:32:32 --> 12:32:49

Bryant Loy: but we saw just a little bit more of a gap with that this year than what we typically see. And so, you know, obviously. what do you do? You? You drop your rates for your midweek, so there's less demand. But you know that that was probably the biggest thing that we saw. We again, like I said, we still ended up having.

12:32:49 --> 12:33:01

Bryant Loy: you know, a fantastic summer, but um… that was probably the biggest thing we saw this year, was that gap of occupancy from your Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday versus your Thursday, Friday, Saturday were quite a bit different.

12:33:00 --> 12:33:06

Henry Corell: Are those itineraries you're talking about, like bookings, or are you talking about length of stay more so?

12:33:05 --> 12:33:10

Bryant Loy: Just like actual occupancy itself, like the actual, like, stay dates.

12:33:10 --> 12:33:12

Henry Corell: Oh, okay.

12:33:11 --> 12:33:18

John Deroulet: It's kind of interesting because this, it's like, you know, Henry mentioned this, which is that, um…

12:33:18 --> 12:33:31

John Deroulet: you know, the averages aren't always very helpful, right? Like, your average booking window kind of puts you in the middle of that black hole zone where you're actually not making bookings. It's really bookended on both sides. I think length of stay is the same way, right? We're talking about to teams.

12:33:20 --> 12:33:21

Kyle Polensky: Mm-hmm.

12:33:31 --> 12:33:46

John Deroulet: early booking window probably have increased average length of stays. I'll be curious, Kyle and Rebecca, if that's what you're seeing. But when we look at the market data, we actually see the opposite. It's fallen, and a lot of that is being driven by different parts of the booking window.

12:33:46 --> 12:34:01

John Deroulet: I guess I don't have a question off of this if someone wants to riff off of it, but what are you seeing in your booking window stuff? And if you want to fall back on, did you have a spot in the portfolio that was not doing as well, and how do you plan to approach it?

12:33:59 --> 12:34:01

Kyle Polensky: Hmm.

12:34:01 --> 12:34:17

Kyle Polensky: Yeah, I'd love to chime in on that. So, like, one of the main things we saw for this summer was be very wary of hype. So World Cup was a great example where there was a lot of discussion around the idea that, like, this is going to be something where you're gonna get 2x what you've previously achieved on your highest date.

12:34:17 --> 12:34:35

Kyle Polensky: And we just really didn't see that materialize, like, at least as an average across the board. Some of our most profitable operators stuck to just still continuing a high occupancy game, but aiming for more moderate increases between 15% and 35%, and that was a way more successful play.

12:34:35 --> 12:34:50

Kyle Polensky: And then a lot of these little smaller operators that read every article about like, "Well, the tickets are going for 14K, so you should be advertising for 10K." So one of the things that we really took away from this summer is we're trying to be very wary about hype as we move forward.

12:34:50 --> 12:35:10

Kyle Polensky: forward into fall 2026, and then specifically, like Brian's been talking about 2027, really trying not to get caught up in the emotion of the market, because especially with more AI-generated stuff online, you're going to see more of that hype, and you're going to see less of the reality of what's happening on the ground, which is at close, did they actually book at that rate?

12:35:10 --> 12:35:14

Kyle Polensky: So that was kind of one of the biggest lessons for us this summer, was focusing on that.

12:35:14 --> 12:35:15

John Deroulet: Awesome.

12:35:15 --> 12:35:19

John Deroulet: Rebecca, what would you spot?

12:35:17 --> 12:35:34

Rebecca Barrett: Yeah, when it comes to length of stay, some kind of interesting things were happening. Our length of stay is just slightly up from previous years, but during the short term, when we weren't having as many last minute bookings come in.

12:35:34 --> 12:35:50

Rebecca Barrett: Um, mostly related to, like, the really nice homes had already booked, and so it's kind of like that more basic, um, availability left. Um, people weren't as excited. There's a lot of demand in the area. Um, I started lowering nightly minimum stays, um.

12:35:50 --> 12:36:05

Rebecca Barrett: However, what I found is people were still… were basically just showing up on more searches by doing that. People were still booking longer night stays, even though the minimums had been decreased, and I've been watching that for several months now, and it's been a continued trend of.

12:36:05 --> 12:36:11

Rebecca Barrett: I can lower those down, but people are still going to book those longer stays, and we're just simply showing up in more places.

12:36:11 --> 12:36:25

John Deroulet: Say that to the folks in the Mid-Atlantic and the Carolinas so they can hear you. The stay restrictions are not necessarily giving you, you're not getting shorter stays by just lowering the stay restrictions. You're getting more views.

12:36:13 --> 12:36:14

Rebecca Barrett: Yes.

12:36:13 --> 12:36:15

Kyle Polensky: Okay.

12:36:15 --> 12:36:17

Kyle Polensky: Yeah. Rebecca?

12:36:19 --> 12:36:21

Kyle Polensky: Could…

12:36:23 --> 12:36:35

Kyle Polensky: Totally agree, and John, Rebecca, like, I totally agree with you, like, if you want the 4-night stay, the 3-night MIN is the way to go, because that's how you get the attraction and the visibility on the OTA. So, totally with you there, yeah.

12:36:31 --> 12:36:33

Rebecca Barrett: Yeah.

12:36:35 --> 12:36:51

John Deroulet: Yeah. Well, let's move on to what you guys are seeing for either coming up in the fall or for what you're planning for next year. What are the trends that you're seeing? And I'll leave this pretty open. You're welcome to talk about next year or this upcoming season, depending on what kind of portfolio you have.

12:36:51 --> 12:37:05

John Deroulet: What are you planning for, especially for you guys coming off of a good year? Like, how are you going to be setting the rate in relation to this year? What are the kind of trends that you're expecting you're going to have to react to? And I'm going to circle back on you, Rebecca. You can talk a little more for us.

12:37:04 --> 12:37:23

Rebecca Barrett: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I had said before, we're having these different clients come to our area, and we're really, like, pushing hard to get those people back, and we're already seeing our people rebooking for next summer at wild ADRs, which is great. Of course, we're not going to retain all of those guests, but the people that are coming back are really pushing hard to.

12:37:23 --> 12:37:41

Rebecca Barrett: get those people to book early and at that higher rate than they did this year. Um, and then for fall, specifically, we, uh, have fall colors here. All the leaves change, um, for a couple weeks, um, which, again, is a pretty volatile season, just because you never really know when Mother Nature's gonna do that. Um.

12:37:41 --> 12:37:57

Rebecca Barrett: So we have a lot of people book in advance, um, because they know that they just have to come at some point between this typical opening, but we also have to push really hard for those last minute bookings. Um, so our booking window is weird, just as, you know, you had touched on before. We have those really long.

12:37:57 --> 12:38:10

Rebecca Barrett: long booking windows, and then right before, right as the peak colors are happening, it's like a wild booking, uh, frenzy. And at that point, we typically do raise our rates, um, for last minute, because there is less supply. So.

12:38:10 --> 12:38:19

Rebecca Barrett: I expect that to be pretty similar this year, maybe slightly soft just due to the last minute travelers we're seeing, but it's kind of a to be determined still.

12:38:19 --> 12:38:33

John Deroulet: And for those properties that you mentioned for this summer where, like, they're not your top properties, how are you going to be treating them in terms of pricing next year? Are you going to try to get them booked earlier? How are you going to talk to the owners about it?

12:38:31 --> 12:38:32

Rebecca Barrett: Yeah, I know.

12:38:33 --> 12:38:52

Rebecca Barrett: I mean, that's a goal, but, um, I'm just kind of using the historical anchoring, honestly, to just get them above what they did this year. We always try to increase every property by a minimum of, like, 5% each year, so that's always, uh, the goal, uh, in at least short-term and long-term more than that, so…

12:38:52 --> 12:39:06

John Deroulet: Awesome. Um, and do you have any kind of, like, uh… what's your forecast for next year? Like, do you think it's gonna be better? Do you think it's gonna be worse? What do you think is the biggest thing that, you know, other revenue managers should have to consider?

12:39:06 --> 12:39:14

Rebecca Barrett: Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to say at this point. I think it's going to be pretty comparable to this year, maybe slightly better just because we.

12:39:14 --> 12:39:26

Rebecca Barrett: Um, there was new travelers that traveled, at least to our location last year, and I think we can, um, capture some of those repeat guests. So, I think maybe slightly better than this year, but pretty…

12:39:26 --> 12:39:29

Rebecca Barrett: Similar, depending on the economy.

12:39:29 --> 12:39:44

John Deroulet: Yeah, I have often said, and you guys can all answer this question too, but I think that after last year, we're seeing a lot more pressure on the markets, and the economic situation seems like we're going to see more pressure on the markets, but that professionals will continue to take market share.

12:39:44 --> 12:39:59

John Deroulet: out of this. And it's because, you know, we've… everyone on this call really looking very far out, really focusing on that strategy and that advanced booking, but not everyone in the market is in a position to do that. And those revenue managers that are operating that way are just in a position to take.

12:39:59 --> 12:40:02

John Deroulet: You know, take the highest share of the market.

12:40:00 --> 12:40:01

Rebecca Barrett: Mmhm.

12:40:02 --> 12:40:03

Henry Corell: Yeah, it's…

12:40:02 --> 12:40:13

Rebecca Barrett: Yeah, we're also selling experiences, which even when, you know, people don't have that money, that's what they're gonna spend whatever money they do have on, so we all do have that, you know, bonus of…

12:40:02 --> 12:40:03

John Deroulet: Um…

12:40:13 --> 12:40:18

Rebecca Barrett: We always have that in our back pocket, how to market that.

12:40:17 --> 12:40:33

John Deroulet: Yeah, that's a big piece too. I've seen in a number of different like CBDs that while accommodation revenue is kind of either flatlining or dropping, overall spend is exceptionally like up in markets. And so if you have a way to add in these other things and attach them to your brand, you're really.

12:40:33 --> 12:40:39

John Deroulet: you know, again, just capturing a much larger market share than what's just available on an OTA.

12:40:38 --> 12:40:57

Henry Corell: There's that caveat, too, where people will say that, or, like, they'll hear, you know, Airbnb's like, oh, we're gonna grow 6% year over year, but supply is also gonna grow. So, like, you know, the communication piece of being like, yeah, like, you know, the industry is good, but at the same time, we might have to be a little bit more competitive. That part's gonna be a little interesting. But that's.

12:40:39 --> 12:40:40

John Deroulet: But…

12:40:57 --> 12:41:14

Henry Corell: get out in the head, because, you know, on top of photos, listing amenities, just everything along those lines. But yeah, it'll be interesting, because people owners typically hear, oh, you know, Airbnb's up, you know, people are spending more money. Why am I not making more money? Well, supply is also going up, too. Maybe it's not actually getting met, but…

12:41:14 --> 12:41:16

Henry Corell: Yeah. Sorry. Just chiming in there really quick.

12:41:16 --> 12:41:22

John Deroulet: For sure. Kyle, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're expecting for fall and next year?

12:41:21 --> 12:41:36

Kyle Polensky: Yeah, I mean, the overall tone of this definitely seems to be conservative, um, and from our perspective, we're really… we're really expecting more of an OTA push. So, we think the big leaders in the market, and apparently not for you, Rebecca, with your direct bookings, which sounds fantastic, that's awesome.

12:41:36 --> 12:41:52

Kyle Polensky: Especially financially. But OTAs, I'm really expecting them to fight even harder for more of an edge in the market. We're seeing a lot of increased pressure for them, that they're putting on individual operators, where they're really trying to expand slash enable more promotions. They're also.

12:41:52 --> 12:42:09

Kyle Polensky: disincentivizing small promotions. Like we're generally finding that if it's not a discount above 10%, you're not getting any sort of actual attraction on these websites anymore. And that's, I think it really does speak to the fact that they are all competing hard to be a market leader by locking in guests.

12:42:09 --> 12:42:29

Kyle Polensky: earlier, while also really trying to show their guests that they are low cost leaders during what could be a really interesting time economically in the country. So I mean for us. What we're really trying to do is stay aggressive on these Otas. We're also trying to be sensitive about what promotions we do add in. Yeah, exactly as Emily's bringing up right now, we do a lot of that like.